It is currently Sep 18, 2019 5:45 am


Nutrition and elitlism

Many of us have found that food plays a large part in our physical and mental health. Some of us struggle with our relationship with food. What are you eating (or not eating) these days?

Postby sleeping_explorer » Oct 13, 2008 9:27 pm

I recently noticed how much fat there is in a pot of hummus, I'd always thought it was good for protein coz of the chickpeas. but some of 'em must be like half oil or something. If you have a blender you can make your own so easily though, just mush up some canned chickpeas, garlic, tahini, lemon juice, and some olive oil, and hey presto you have hummus, a lot cheaper than ready made, and you can decide how much of each flavour you want.

I started prioritising eating well after a bad episode a few years ago. Before that, I didn't want to consider food and it's impact on my mood. I thought I couldn't afford the time or the money for it...

With healthy, vegan food it is generally the case that the less time you have to spend getting your food together, the more expensive it is. Which is fair enough in a way, coz someone else's hours are being spent on making the prepared things like tofu, fake sausages, nut milks and so on.

The only cookbooks I've ever had are punk zines. They've done me proud so far!

I'm pretty spoilt with skips though; in the last 7 years I've never been too far from a steady supply of free, good food, so long as I could be bothered to go rooting through the bags to get it. I find it kinda ironic that it's the leftover waste of our capitalist society that I feed myself on. The same system that I fight against, gives me food and clothes and at some times a roof without payment in those monetary units...

Going back to the original topic, "organic" and "healthy" has been identified as a target market for those with deep pockets...and some small independent health food shops have closed down once the Wholefoods chain has opened up a store in the same area. (and as a consequence, I've been getting a taste for things I can't afford, as they turn up in their dump, and I then discover how much they cost in-store!)
everything changes and everyone dies - we all must be shown - must realise - that everyone changes - and everything dies
'blood from the air', coil
User avatar
sleeping_explorer
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Oct 02, 2008 4:14 pm

Postby mina » Oct 13, 2008 11:53 pm

one day i will actually post my evolving thoughts to this topic but for now i thought i would defend my true love of hummous

raw oil is really good for people...way better than cooked because there are no free-radicals in it (which destroy lots of good cell function in the body) which happens when you cook oil, making it rancid. they have higher doses of omega 3, 6, 9's which are great for brain functioning, cell repair and immune boosting. the body use the fat from raw oil a lot more efficiently, not storing it in the bosy in the same way. there are other excellent functions if you want me to get super nerdy on you...i hear we nerds are pretty sexy....
User avatar
mina
 
Posts: 1523
Joined: Nov 02, 2004 9:23 am

Postby sleeping_explorer » Oct 14, 2008 5:32 pm

Hey,
That's useful information there.
I wasn't dissing hummus - I love it - and if uncooked oil is good for you, then it's better for me than I realised.
I just got a shock when I looked at the nutritional values one day. I had no idea it had such high fat content.
everything changes and everyone dies - we all must be shown - must realise - that everyone changes - and everything dies
'blood from the air', coil
User avatar
sleeping_explorer
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Oct 02, 2008 4:14 pm

Re: Nutrition and elitlism

Postby thedivinemsblue » Oct 14, 2008 11:36 pm

mina wrote:But as a poor starving student/person I find that vegan or even any health food is way outside of my budget. Most of the "healthy" crap is so processed anyways that I have no qualms about not affording it. I'm talking about simple stuff like bread. $4.00 a loaf?! And if I want wheat/gluten free it's $5-6 a loaf? That's insane! who can afford to be healthy with those prices?


(full disclosure: i'm a very unhealthy person. i love food, all kinds, i love food. so i'm not a spitting image of someone who cares about what they put into their body health wise. but i do know a lot about it!)

anyway, i just wanted to let you know that cooking can be a very cheap way to get really healthy food. bread is actually very easy to make, it takes more time than effort, and if you make a few loaves at a time, you can freeze some and have some for the rest of the month. i was really amazed at how easy bread was once i started baking it myself. you can also incorporate cheap veggies into your breads to make them healthier (more meal-like), and really stretch your veggie dollar by buying a ton of stuff in season (like zucchinis, pumpkin, squash, carrots, potatoes)

also, granola is really easy, and you can soupe it up with tvp and quinoa flakes to get more protein cheaply. oh, and apparently you can make really yummy yoghurts at home easily, but i have yet to try this one. i bet you can do soy yoghurt at home too. sprouts are crazy easy, and very cheap, very nutritious (especially considering all the different types of sprouts you can get). beans are really lovely additions to everything, i find. but they give me stomach aches so bad! i worked for a guyanese woman who taught me to cook sugar and a bit of apple cider vinegar with the beans, it keeps the gas down. so that works for me.

cooking keeps prices down big time, and is a lot easier than people make it out to be, a lot less work than the extra time you have to work at a job to get enough money to eat out/prepared foods. cooking can be really fun and artistic. also, you can skip steps and make it easier.

i'd make you yummy vegan food for cheap if you lived near! :)
<p>i am a scientist - i seek to understand me all of my impurities and evils yet unknown i am a journalist - i write to you to show you i am an incurable and nothing else behaves like me</p>
thedivinemsblue
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 9:10 pm

Postby mina » Oct 15, 2008 10:34 pm

thanks msdb....perhaps i'll be back in the great wide north if things work out.

i do cook a lot of my food, but it does take up time. i'm trying to be more efficient by cooking a bunch and freezing portions, however between school, 2 jobs and being a wingnut it is a precocious balance. this thread was also not just about myself, but many people i work with struggle to find time to make a meal with the above and kids included. it's easier for me because it is just myself, or when my partner is in town, just us with no one depending on us but a kitty (who is pretty easy to please). eating healthy food, includes organic veggies where minerals haven't been stripped of the soil or are GMO infested. growing one's own is a solution but it also tends to take up time. anarchist peeps like myself and friends who don't mind dumpstering, eating at FNB, sharing leftovers and the like have more room to play with, but what about families who are not so radical with their food sources? some of the food banks here give away food that is worse for you than what i eat out of a dumpster, which seems strange. i guess because i imagine food banks to care about people's health but that isn't the vibe i am getting. you can still starve to death eating stuff that is bad for you, creating malnutrition in the body.

again...i haven't read this thread in a long time and should probably go back to look at it.
User avatar
mina
 
Posts: 1523
Joined: Nov 02, 2004 9:23 am

Postby Opheliac » Oct 15, 2008 10:48 pm

mina wrote:some of the food banks here give away food that is worse for you than what i eat out of a dumpster, which seems strange.


I totally agree. I mean how healthful is a diet of bread, ramen, macaroni, canned vegetables and fruit (cooking can kill most of the nutrients and lots of sugar added), powdered milk and MSG-tainted soup? I was hurting for food awhile back and I went to a church where they were giving away food and in my bag was mostly canned green beans, powdered milk and ramen. I wish food banks and the like had better nutritional and cultural competency. I live in a Mexican neighborhood and I imagine the people would rather receive rice and beans and masa harina, it would be healthier too. But it's free and we can't complain because someone did their good deed for the day, right?

I remember when I was about 4 my mom and I went dumpster diving and found this perfectly good head of lettuce. Back then 'freegan' wasn't really a concept, we did this because we were starving and had no money or food stamps. Another time when I was a teenager I found this huge bag full of brand-new clothes with the tags on. I took what I liked and sold the rest. It's amazing the perfectly good things people toss out.
User avatar
Opheliac
 
Posts: 5328
Joined: Mar 30, 2008 2:24 am

Postby Guest » Oct 16, 2008 3:37 pm

mina wrote:anarchist peeps like myself and friends who don't mind dumpstering, eating at FNB, sharing leftovers and the like have more room to play with, but what about families who are not so radical with their food sources?

All this economic turmoil and the rising price of oil are going to force some changes in the way food and other goods are exchanged in North America pretty soon. There is a reason why cities in earlier times were not filled with the millions of people that modern cities are filled with. Without mechanized transport in the form of trains, trucks, ships and airplanes, food could not be brought in from thousands of miles away and had to be grown locally. So there was a limit to how large a community could be and still have enough arable land around close enough that a horse-cart, river barge or slaves on foot could reach it. As oil supplies diminish, if we don't find something to replace it with, that dynamic is going to become a reality again. Quite simply, there isn't going to be a way to feed people in cities. There isn't enough rooftop or vacant lot space around in cities to feed such a concentration of people. There's not going to be any dumpstered food by then either.

So populations are going to have to decentralize again in order to avoid going hungry. Cities are going to go into a decline. I don't really see any way around this, and don't have a problem with it either.
Guest
 

Postby catmind » Nov 16, 2008 11:54 pm

Empties, do I hear a hint of Derrick Jensen? (I'd recommend his writing to anyone.)

Opheliac, I had a lovely lentil loaf recipe but have LOST it! or I'd put it here. Will do that if it surfaces. But if you google "lentil loaf", there are lots to choose from. It's like a meat loaf: nothing's set in stone, I'm pretty freestyle with cooking most things, and you can add or delete ingredients as desired as long as you don't mess with the basic things that hold it together, such as eggs, tomato paste, or whatever liquids or sticky stuff it uses. I like mine with a spicy (mango) chutney, and here's one with a pumpkin sauce that I'm going to try:
http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/3802/len ... sauce.aspx
mmmm.. I love pumpkin.. (so do my cats, btw)

I've got food-bank stuff too, but with the cost in nutrition and prana sucking (being treated like a piece of offal), I've decided not to waste the gas on getting there. It's hard, though, for those like me who can't climb into dumpsters.. I buy from the organic section and stock up when there are sales. Wish there were dented-cans stores up here in Canada, but I've never heard of one. Could be some govt. regulations prevent it.

I haven't been cooking/baking nearly enough in the past few years. Health issues and a very small kitchen are part of it.. This thread is motivating me to start again, though. So thanks!

btw, what ARE CSAs anyway?
<p>Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying.

- Ram Dass

 </p>
User avatar
catmind
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Oct 15, 2008 10:13 pm

for the vegan concerned

Postby soleil » Nov 30, 2008 4:02 am

hey there, I'm not vegan but I know people who are, and I have lactose and gluten intolerances, and sugar makes me crazy. so i understand your pain onthe bread thing for sure, and you know what? i have honestly found the best way for me to live cheaply is not to buy prepackaged foods, but to make it all from scratch. not good for the timesavers, but definately worth your monetary while. so I use spelt flour, and did you know that in dessert breads and cakes 1 banana=1egg? in terms of vegan replacements there's a lot of them out there if you look for it, and you'll find that not eating prepackaged (and may i say I cannot eat soy either, so its rice, almond and hemp milk for me) foods actually really makes shopping cheaper. save the big bucks for avacados and such like that. love, the hippy.
soleil
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 30, 2008 2:53 am

Postby fightforroses » Nov 30, 2008 1:05 pm

Opheliac, I totally get what you're saying. My school is doing a food drive, and whichever residence hall collects the most stuff wins some stupid prize. And everyone's donating stuff like white flour noodles and hamburger helper and ramen and Kraft mac and cheese... LOTS of Kraft mac and cheese. Seriously, it's white flour and cow squeezings... who wants to eat that?

Catmind, CSA means Community Supported Agriculture. They have them all over and they probably vary by state, but the one near me works like this: At the beginning of the year you pay $500, and then once a week for the whole growing season (which is about five months where I live) you go to a pick-up location, and they give you three grocery bags FULL of organic vegetables grown on a small, sustainable local farm.

Oh, and Derrick Jensen? Mr. "Beyond Hope"?... *squeee!!!* Image

Welcome to Icarus, Soleil. :)
Real Me unavailable due to bullying and harassment.
Equidancers, ESQ's (Attorney, TX) rape fantasies about me available at
https://bit.ly/2CLCTmm ,
https://bit.ly/2SdBu1u ,
https://bit.ly/2DCs5Zq ,
https://bit.ly/2S8BiAM ,
https://pastebin.com/8T9XjYxb and
https://pastebin.com/cEVunhDx
fightforroses
 
Posts: 5247
Joined: Apr 14, 2008 9:34 pm

Postby catmind » Nov 30, 2008 6:03 pm

Thanks for the info on CSAs, FFR.
Not sure how to take that DJ comment, so I'll assume it's positive.
:-))
<p>Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying.

- Ram Dass

 </p>
User avatar
catmind
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Oct 15, 2008 10:13 pm

Postby fightforroses » Nov 30, 2008 8:35 pm

Yeah, it's positive. :)
Real Me unavailable due to bullying and harassment.
Equidancers, ESQ's (Attorney, TX) rape fantasies about me available at
https://bit.ly/2CLCTmm ,
https://bit.ly/2SdBu1u ,
https://bit.ly/2DCs5Zq ,
https://bit.ly/2S8BiAM ,
https://pastebin.com/8T9XjYxb and
https://pastebin.com/cEVunhDx
fightforroses
 
Posts: 5247
Joined: Apr 14, 2008 9:34 pm

Postby koffeedeath » Dec 01, 2008 4:27 pm

i just happened across this post by empties, who states:
All this economic turmoil and the rising price of oil are going to force some changes in the way food and other goods are exchanged in North America pretty soon. There is a reason why cities in earlier times were not filled with the millions of people that modern cities are filled with. Without mechanized transport in the form of trains, trucks, ships and airplanes, food could not be brought in from thousands of miles away and had to be grown locally. So there was a limit to how large a community could be and still have enough arable land around close enough that a horse-cart, river barge or slaves on foot could reach it. As oil supplies diminish, if we don't find something to replace it with, that dynamic is going to become a reality again. Quite simply, there isn't going to be a way to feed people in cities. There isn't enough rooftop or vacant lot space around in cities to feed such a concentration of people. There's not going to be any dumpstered food by then either.

So populations are going to have to decentralize again in order to avoid going hungry. Cities are going to go into a decline. I don't really see any way around this, and don't have a problem with it either.


I think the opposite is true. Economic power and privilege in the form of social, cultural, economic capital are going to force many people who live in rural areas to move to cities. The way land is being gobbled up and administered by agribusiness corporations is forcing many small farms to close down. Either that, or they are focusing their efforts in cultivation into small-scale things that aren't staples, that as much as I appreciate them, are still luxuries and not providing what is essential.

People in the last thirty years or so have doubled population in the cities. This is obviously unsustainable, but it won't be rich people who are suffering from the lack of food resources--they'll still be going to restaurants, in the fashionable areas of town. It will be the working classes who have trouble putting nutritious food on their table now who are going to suffer.

There isn't actually a lack of food resources, in my opinion. We spend extreme amounts of money on processed junk food that costs a lot more than staples that would be much cheaper to produce and to buy. Why is that? It's mostly because the staples and fresh produce are not available for cheap in the urban areas. There is a big markup, due to real estate prices and the fact that many cities seem to have supermarkets that dominate the competition.

If and when oil supplies run down, individuals and families who see their resources dwindling in the rural and suburban areas will tend to make the conclusion that they should move to the cities so that they can be nearer to their jobs. Now that suburban areas and some semi-rural areas are receiving an influx of poor people seeking to leave the cities, they are receiving some of the social suffering that cities have always had. Now areas of the suburbs and rural areas also become areas of social exclusion and poverty--and now that cities are becoming more affluent and desirable, people always say that the cities are better off than they used to be in the early 1990s. (Except that many of those people are no longer there... they're dead or displaced).

Maybe I am just paranoid, but I think the real power of the elite in this country is held by people who make and market useless, culturally fashionable, trendy, cute, but totally inedible cultural references. Or those who represent the corporate culture, which is only accessible if you fit into a certain demographic and social category. You know what I mean if you have ever been in American cities. I doubt if either of those types of people will have a problem putting food on their table.

If you're referring to socalled "third-world" cities, the poor and middle class in those cities, many of whom live under $2 a day are definitely in for some hunger, as well as social collapse, as they already have been.. The question is, will the power elite in those countries try to keep their populations fed well enough so that they are not thrown out of office and replaced by someone who promises to make the economy more equitable?

People can find enough food to eat usually. However, it's not great food, it's not nutritious food, the water quality's not great, and open sewers run past their houses. THey may have to work 16 hour days and put their children to work in brick factories, but what the hell, it's food.

On the other hand, try telling a 16 million person city like Cairo to disperse into the desert. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

It's more like economic pressure for resources will translate into political and social turmoil, rioting, ethnic cleansing, genocide and so on.

I prefer for that not to happen.
User avatar
koffeedeath
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Aug 21, 2005 6:30 am

Postby daymare » Dec 04, 2008 10:41 pm

I would suggest looking into wild edible plants in the pacific northwest. There is a lot of wonderful nutritious food all around you. If you live in PDX, I would avoid eating things within the vicinity, everything was routinely sprayed with pesticides when I was visiting! But there are tons of black rasberries in Oregon, in fact they are very invasive. they melt in your mouth, they are great. If you can manage to get to a library, just check out a book on wild edibles and venture outside of the city. I live in Philly now and I miss being able to go wildcrafting and foraging, everything here is covered in homebum poop and chemicals and crack stems and broken bottles and drywall and concrete. But it is a really satisfying endeavor, and if you're anything like me (I get broken up and feel overly sensitive about not having any connection with the raw materials that feed, clothe and shelter me) it is very satisfying.
User avatar
daymare
 
Posts: 357
Joined: Apr 21, 2005 3:20 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

farmers markets

Postby srp » Dec 13, 2008 3:37 am

For forty dollars I can get a weeks worth of vegetables, make a huge pot of soup and have plenty of salad fixings as well as green beans and chard etc.

Farmers markets are not always cheap, it helps to go to the big ones if your town has them and then check out the stands for prices. I buy conventional when it comes to anything with a thick skin, avocados for example. I was told that if it has a thick skin no need to waste money on organic, the pesticides don't penetrate the skin, though I hate supporting the use of pesticides. Health food stores are expensive for the packaged crap, but most of that stuff isn't really healthy. Ezekiel makes a great sproated wheat loaf that Trader Joes sells for 2 bucks. And that stuff is dense, a little goes a long way (though I can sit at home on a rainy day and go through the entire loaf by keeping getting up to make tea and toast!) Veggies are cheaper at fm's than at whole foods (or as we call it whole paycheck). The asian food stands usually have the cheapest prices on bundles of greens, they aren't what your use to but if you talk to the seller they will tell you how to prepare things. 2 words: PEA TENDRILS.
I am sorry to go on and on but this is a topic close to my heart. Eating well changes everything, and I mean everything for me. I believe that my diet has a direct correlation on my mental health. Yes the poor are being killed off by food fillers and government subsidized corn syrup but, people need to educate themselves and make better choices!!! If we stop buying crap food that kills us, then they will stop making it!
srp
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 1:04 am
Location: los angeles

oh yeah and

Postby srp » Dec 13, 2008 3:39 am

certified farmers markets take food stamps!
srp
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 1:04 am
Location: los angeles

Postby robicarus26 » Feb 27, 2009 5:17 am

esthete wrote:We (my husband and I) spend a lot on groceries. Usually $120 every two weeks and I eat breakfast and lunch out nearly every day on top of that.


how do you spend so little? me and my husband spend that much or more every week. we do eat meat, but not that much, mostly at dinner, 8oz or less per person. what's your secret?

Crystal
User avatar
robicarus26
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Feb 26, 2009 10:15 pm

Postby oasis » Aug 23, 2009 11:32 pm

koffeedeath: spoken with a sociological imagination!

i like the title of this thread.
User avatar
oasis
 
Posts: 2428
Joined: Apr 21, 2008 2:01 pm

Postby oasis » Aug 23, 2009 11:34 pm

[insert joke about Whole Foods here]
User avatar
oasis
 
Posts: 2428
Joined: Apr 21, 2008 2:01 pm

Postby kilsoquah » Aug 24, 2009 12:08 am

they pay for meds here tho we are 52nd in mental health here behind also the so called territories. well, i get prescribed fish oil now along with the neuroleptics well the teledoc is a little integrative conscious and talked with doc weil some...but she has stuff to learn still they both do from us mad ones...well so i think i get the fish oil covered if i work it right, 3000 mg a day too, they finally figured out it needs to be higher than 1000 to avoid the lithium and depacrap. well. she is a meds minimalist...but she does not know my metabolism and she thinks i am on a low dose but it is still too high for me than i need. and i prefer snakeroot tea. yeah nutrition. it comes and goes depending. it may be less soon since i may get less help from parents soon if i move away and cut them off so they don't petition me anymore when i am NOT a danger to self. we just needed an icarus project here and some mad maps. i also had run out of my last med, klonopin.. oe something...i t was too sudden. i was doing all well before that. i fasted too some and it was all going good. my mom and step dad did not even know what to do i guess. trying to protect me but we need safer places than hospitals. oh and hospital food and nutrition??? uh i don't think so...we had no veggies hardly eiter at the halfway house. i am in a occasional meat phase now but i don't really cook it. but i think i am going into more veg mode. tho i am eating cheese. i should really see if i am allergic to wheat i guess but yeah it is in everything affordable.
<p><i> </i></p>
<span class="body">The sun, the darkness, the winds are all listening to what we have to say.</span>

<span class="bodybold"> <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/geronimo198327.html">Geronimo</a> </span>
User avatar
kilsoquah
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Jun 13, 2009 7:12 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Food and Health

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron